please tell us what president obama said to john boehner during their phone call? >> i wish i knew, i don't have that good of sources, but i mean look, we're at a place now where it is very, very conceivably that we'll get to january one with nothing done. for a while i assumed this was noise and theater, and each side needed to demonstrate to their respective bases that they were getting what they needed to get. at this point i'm a lot more skeptical about that, and the people i talked to, that is a reported problem, they're worried about it getting done, as well. >> sam, i thought it was all noise, and bluster, as well. and it is done, as you say to try to claim the high ground, have the president look like he is really trying to avoid the cliff. boehner, i'm really tried to avoid the cliff. but the leadership at both ends realize that they will actually have to go over the cliff in order to begin to have the real conversation, which i think you know, they can really seriously start having on new year's eve. >> yeah, i mean, it seems very clear now there is one of two options available.